It's sad how so many people in America have been conditioned to defend guns at all costs, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that there are way too damn many of them and way too damn many people who shouldn't have them.
"It's tragic when people have to bury their kids due to gun violence. Kids should not be murdered."

There; fix'd.
TRAGIC, yes, that is definitely a better word for it. It just blows me away that people would argue with what seems to be a very simple statement.
Yeah. I mean. I hope you don't take offence, but I'm on the verge of having to block your feed from facebook because I can't hack reading the bullshit spewed by a lot of your pro-gun friends on there.
No offense taken. They can be seriously aggravating. I thinking of taking a step back from talking about gun control so often, though that also seems aggravating.
That's part of the problem too though, they shut down all conversation by being bugfuck crazy, and thus drive people to not want to even try and debate with them anymore. THus leaving them nice and secure and cozy inside their bubble of fascist crazyland.

You know some really fucking poisonous people on FB though.
I guess I will sort of act like the voice of doom in this point... Please don't get it the wrong way, you heard?

I know which topic this addresses to.
And... I've gotta say something to this too from a very different perspective.
My brain's got knowledge about what it looks like on the other side - yes, on that side which shoots at the other kids.
My point is the following: Sure not all school shooters have their best and most noble motivations for their deeds, some not even really understandable reasons outside of pathological megalomania and narcissism or other weird ideas going on in their heads (I count those two from Columbine among them too; surely an unpopular opinion, but really, I can't find the avengers of the bullied within them, not in people which choose Hitler's birthday as the date of their massacre), but you also have people among them which have been picked on for a lot of time in their lives and THIS always by people which feel themselves like in a pretty untouchable position. People which think and are used to there never being consequences for them and their shitty behavior.
What my brain learned about those is - it seems like the only thing they ever come to respect is when they make an experience where they learn this circumstance of invincibility in their heads is nothing but an illusion. When they once get slapped back, when they get shot in their leg for once and their feet can't run 200 meters in 5 seconds to avoid the bullet.
This definitely is an issue of upbringing, a job which their parents did the wrong way. Teens and young adults which act like they can do every ugly bullshit and it'll never carry punishment for them after it, this is an issue of parents getting them used to always "being their shiny darling which can never hurt a fly". Pampering them, making them a star which they aren't.
Unfortuntely, parents can also be part of the problem in case you complain about these to some legitimate civil authorities because they just assert this position to them also in front of others. Their shining little darlings which can never do anybody evil...
I think the kids themselves also know how to make use of this strategy in case the parents regard them like that. You know, manipulating them to get stuff from them, to protect them even when its THEM who's committed the crime and all that...
...Technically, in the position of the shooter, you're in that seat then to do a job which actually the parents ought to do, but don't for some reason. As abstract as it sounds...
You're in that position to teach them "here's a red line you ought not to cross, here's a limit, a thing, you ought not to touch" - all the while it's also about your own integrity, about the health or the getting crushed of your own personality.

And just taking that knowledge about that possible side of things, I just don't want to take sides for either fraction in this. Neither for blame, not for heroic behavior, nor anything else.
I'd rather like to put the question that way around: If gun laws were tighter, or if civil gun ownership was much, much heavier under surveillance who buys what, what do you think would it change?
The question of too easy access is on the table ever since Columbine, and next year is the 20th anniversary. Many, many others in differing countries came with time passing, all with less loose gun laws, all complaining about similar fucked-up biographies, all complaining about fucked up school systems and fellow students which behave like shit, and still it did not prevent anything from happenening.
Even the more: If something did not take place that way, there's good chance these broken personalities will tend to adapt other sorts of harming/self-harming behavior.
What have you won then if just only taking away the guns from that "game"?
And really don't get me started about mental health systems - when it comes down to people who don't act the cliche of a "victim-personality" which suffers from differing anxieties, is a cutter and directs substance abuse against itself, this really is a fucking joke! They don't have anything else to offer than blaming, filling you up with pills up to your ears and constantly not knowing what to do with you. Listening and (cognitively) understanding is the last thing they do...

I don't wanna indicate by any means a general excuse for hurting people with that what I wrote here.
I learned to take a look at cases separately and perceive their individual reasons to form a judgment about them, less than generally calling them "heroes" (what heroes? rather "tragic heroes", if any "heroes" at all...) or calling them simply "bastards who stole kids' lives".
This issue has got two sides of it.
And, what I would better like to see, is: Not just debating about firearms, but also about all the other secondary lines attached to cases like that.
Simply, it seems much too simple-minded to me to just pass the Old Maid over to the guns and then everybody's just as happy to return to every day life again. This is like talking oneself into believing drug crime will end because the guns are gone, but the drugs practically still circulate on the streets as ever.
Stricter gun laws would change a lot. I saw yesterday in an article that we have 16 times more gun violence than Germany. Obviously, countries with stricter gun laws have fewer mass murders committed by guns.

Many of us in America look to other countries to show us the way, because other countries have shown us it can be done.

Bullying does have *some* to do with school shootings, except again, other countries have shown us that it's not the main factor. Bullying happens all over the world - it's not a uniquely American problem. And yet, other countries still have fewer shootings.

The common denominator in all of these mass shootings is the gun, not the perpetrator. There have been shooters from all kinds of backgrounds, with all kinds of political and religious leanings.

I absolutely agree that parents need to be more involved with their kids. Maybe some of the warning signs would be recognized sooner. That could save lives on all sides. I just don't think that this is the sole solution.

Those with self destructive - or outwardly destructive - mental health issues will always find ways to lash out, absolutely. What we want is to reduce the body count of when they lash out.

One way of doing this is to limit the access to guns.
I won't deny an effect on this by that measure.
What I come down to having a problem with still is the dog-eat-dog mentality that America's ideological system preaches to you since you were a child.
To be honest, that's also a thing which I think keeps up hostility via passive-aggressive behavior here.
Germany's got not that many legal gun owners - I think it was almost 2 million, out of a population of 82 million in total, but then each of them owning like a quota of 4 or so -, it may have quite a good number of illegal owners (that's what they always guess, due to the restrictive gun laws here, and mafia criminals in the big cities having enough of them even though), as well as a respectful unknown number of owners of airsoft guns, of which only need a license when they exceed a shooting power of 7,5 Joule. (As the influx of refugees came, it gave quite a rise in purchases of guns and weapons you're allowed to own which you need no license for. Also the numbers for applications of getting a small gun license (for just these airsoft weapons) rose.)
So... looking at statistics and the guess-statistics about other stuff, it's not quite the gun-free country that it's always presented as.

But that is not even my main point of argumentation here...
Gun violence indeed, if not being in the bigger cities, doesn't amount for a large number of crime associated to firearms, but that doesn't mean Germans aren't violent against each other.
Knife stuff doesn't count into these statistics in any way, and despite being quite a lot of stuff prohibited here, there's also a ton of people owning and using it even though. Those people which have their home in the criminal scene anyway primarily...
Adding up on that, there's quite a good amount of domestic violence. Husband against wife, wife against husband, parents against kids, former partners against the new relationship of the other and all that shit.
And, as a last thing, Germans have very much a habit for fighting over stupid shit in courts - "concerned citizens" against shit they regard as "chaos" in garden colonies, on the streets, everywhere; people acting the fat controller over your life complaining all the time how much they feel disturbed by any behavior that you do (even if you just behave decently); people complaining over kids playing on playgrounds and causing noise by that; people abusing unlucky placements of ground property borders (such shit like "the garden is yours, but the way leading to it belongs to the property of the neighbor" and that neighbor suddenly, one fine day, thinks he needs to block the way for you, as soon as he knows its HIS) -
Just, in a few words: Some groups and classes in German society somehow habor a strong need to regulate other people and get on their nerves all the time. They literally terrorize everyone with their image of "order" in mind.
They don't shoot anyone, but they don't leave you alone either. They can't see you live your life for whatever reason and behave like grumpy old geezers.
And the worst about it is: Courts and authorities even act in their favor.

Peaceful people? Nope, I don't think so.
German society is not openly aggressive, but they canalize this through pussy-like passive-aggressive stab-you-in-the-back behavior.
And this definitely is a question of mentality, of what you've been taught and what you get coerced in the present to be like.
In this point, the dog-eat-dog mentality that is present here too is a very big thorn in my side.
German society can fast become pretty jealeous when it comes down to personal freedoms and property...

Edited at 2018-03-25 05:17 pm (UTC)